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McMillan Institute Scholar, Michael Escamilla, sits down for a quick interview with Pater Otto Betler, in advance of his Fall 2020 Fay Lecture at The Jung Center of Houston. 

The weekend of November 13-15, The Jung Center of Houston will host this year's Fay Lecture series. Our speaker for this year is Pater Otto Betler, a practicing analytical psychologist, an active Catholic priest, and the master of novices for Europe’s largest men’s monastery, the Benedictine archabbey of St. Ottilien in Germany. He has written chapters about the American Trappist Monk Thomas Merton in two books: “Courageous Curiosity” appears in Kontemplativ Leben: Errinerungen an Thomas Merton, and “The True and False Self in Psychology and Theology” in Gegensätze vereinen - Beiträge zu Thomas Merton, both edited by Wunibald Müller and Detlev Cuntz.

The topic for this year's Fay Lecture series is titled "The Gospel According to Jung" Join the international Jungian community as we explore how presenting C.G. Jung’s psychology in theological terms can help certain individuals regain their psychological health and pursue their individuation process while maintaining, utilizing, strengthening, and deepening both faith and psyche.

The following is from a brief discussion that Father Otto (F.O.) had with Michael Escamilla (M.E.), about his upcoming talk.


M.E.: Father Otto, we are looking forward to your Fay Lecture series this year on “The Gospel According to Jung.” Historically in Psychology, there was a rift between Psychoanalysis and Religion, partly based on Freud’s argument that Religion presented an “Illusion” (Freud: “Future of an Illusion”). Jung and Jungian analysts, by contrast, have been more welcoming to look at spirituality and religion as something that can co-exist in the process of individuation. What do you see as the key reasons why Jung was more interested and empathetic to the importance of spirituality and even religion in the path of individuation?


F.O.: JUNG RECOGNIZED THE POWER AND EFFECT OF IMAGES, AND RELIGION HAS BEEN ONE OF CULTURE'S MOST CAREFUL CREATORS/PRESERVERS/USERS OF IMAGES. THE CULTURES OF THE WORLD HAVE INVESTED MUCH OF THEIR BEST TALENT IN RELIGIOUS ART--ARCHITECTURE, PAINTING, SCULPTURE, MUSIC---THINK OF THE PANTHEON, THE SISTINE CHAPEL, THE PIETA, MOZART'S REQUIUM.


M.E.: In your work as a Jungian analyst, do you find religious/spiritual issues are often a part of the work? Do you have analysands in which this is not part of the work you do together?


F.O.: AS A PRIEST, MONK, ANALYTICAL PSYCHOLOGIST I ENJOY A NICHE MARKET, SO ALMOST ALL OF MY CASES COME BECAUSE I AM NOT merely AN ANALYTICAL PSYCHOLOGIST. I DO NOT EMPHASIZE RELIGION FROM MY SIDE IN AN ANALYSIS, AND I never WEAR MY HABIT WHEN I SEE ANALYSANDS. I HAVE HAD A FEW CASES, WHERE MY BEING A BENEDICTINE WAS NOT THE REASON FOR COMING, AND RELIGION PLAYED A VERY MINOR ROLE IN THOSE CASES. I THINK THIS HAS BEEN ESPECIALLY TRUE OF FAMILY MEMBERS OF PIOUS FOLK WHO RECOMMENDED ME.

M.E.: Jung is known for once saying that instead of “Homo Sapiens” our species should have been called “Homo Religiosis.” He talks of the necessity of developing a Religious attitude towards life. What do you think of what that means – without tying it to a specific religion or dogma?


F.O.: KARL MARX'S ADAGE "RELIGION IS THE OPIATE OF THE PEOPLE", WHEN COMBINED WITH HOMO RELIGIOSIS PRETTY WELL DESCRIBES OUR RACE...WE ARE ALL DRUNK OR HIGH ON SOMETHING...THAT SOMETHING IS WHAT I CALL MY RELIGION, WHETHER IT IS GOD OR THE BUDDHA OR JOHNNY WALKER RED. WE SEEM TO NEED TO BE HOOKED ON SOMETHING. PROBABLY THE PREDOMINANT RELIGIONS IN THE WEST ARE CAPITALISM AND EGOISM, WITH ALCOHOLISM AND CHRISTIANITY TAKING THIRD AND FOURTH PLACE.

M.E.: Jung at various points talks about the “Christian Myth” and that is is losing relevance in the modern world. Yet he was very drawn to psychological understanding of Christian theology, in particular, aspects of Catholicism. Do you have any thoughts on the “mythical” aspects of Christianity seem to be holding less meaning for people in our current times?


F.O.: PARTIALLY WE HAVE BECOME BAD STORY-TELLERS. I FIND STAR WARS MUCH MORE ENGAGING THAN MY PASTOR'S VERSION OF KING DAVID. JUST THIS WEEK I GAVE A COURSE ON BAPTISM, AND PEOPLE WERE FALLING FROM THEIR SEATS AS I EXPLAINED THAT THE OLIVE OIL WAS NOT IN THE EARLY CHURCH THOUGHT OF AS THE MAIN INGREDIENT IN SALAD DRESSING, BUT RATHER THE FUEL FOR LAMPS--MORE AKIN TO ELECTRICITY THAN HAND LOTION.

M.E.: What effect do you think Jung’s being the son of a Protestant minister had on his development of Analytical Psychology?


F.O.: WITHOUT A NEGATIVE FATHER COMPLEX, C.G. COULD NEVER HAVE WRITTEN "ANSWER TO JOB".

M.E.: Can you give us a glimpse of a topic you will be covering in the Fay lectures this year?


F.O.: I hope to wrestle with the audience over the classic problem of good versus evil that caused so much tension between C.G. Jung and Victor White. What would they say to the suggestion that it is simply a problem of secondary narcissism versus "agape"?